Dead Confederates, A Civil War Era Blog

Checking Back on Lexington

Posted in Memory by Andy Hall on January 17, 2014

ComeHometoLexington

Blank

Today is the Friday before the third Monday in January, and that means it’s  Lee-Jackson Day in Virginia. This seems like an opportune time to check in on Lexington, and see how the Virginia Flaggers’ boycott of the city is going.

Long-time readers here will recall that, as part of their campaign to force the city council to reverse its September 2011 flag ordinance, Confederate Heritage™ advocates urged area residents and visitors to boycott city businesses as a means of putting pressure on the council.

When we last checked, the city had released its comprehensive financial report for FY2012 (July 1, 2011 to June 30, 2012), that covered a period for about ten months after the council vote and the initiation of the boycott. The results were pretty good for the citizens of Lexington, but not so good for those actively working to harm that city’s tourist economy — business activity as measured by sales tax revenue, restaurant food tax revenue and hotel/motel tax revenue all improved substantially over FY2011.

Blank

Blank

So how did things go in FY2013 (July 1, 2012 to June 30, 2013)? As it turns out, by those same measures, FY2013 was another good year for tourism-related business in Lexington. Here are the numbers from the city’s Comprehensive Annual Financial Report for FY2013 (p. 91):

Blank

document-91

Blank

Note that in each of those tourism-related categories, actual revenues exceeded the city’s own budget projections by several thousand dollars (last column).

So after nearly two years of a tourism boycott led by local SCV leader Brandon Dorsey and promoted by the Virginia Flaggers, what’s been the effect on revenues for the city? An increase of nearly $340K over FY2011 levels, led by a whopping 25.5% boost in restaurant food tax revenue in the past year alone:

Blank

LexingtonRevenue2013

Blank

I know Dorsey and the Virginia Flaggers want folks to believe that Lexington has turned its back on Lee and Jackson — a claim that seems ludicrous, given those mens’ prominence in local tourism literature (above) — but their boycott doesn’t seem to be having any more more effect than the”Boot Elrod” campaign did in 2012, when the Lexington mayor was re-elected with a larger share of the vote than in 2008. Unemployment in Lexington remains higher than the national average, but it has been for a long time, since well before the flag ordinance, and is substantially lower than in September 2011. The reality is that Lexington’s tourism-related business numbers are strong, and that part of the local economy is doing better than the U.S. national economy overall.

I sure hope Brandon Dorsey and the Virginia Flaggers decide to organize a boycott of tourism in my town; we could use the boost!

___________

GeneralStarsGray

About these ads

48 Responses

Subscribe to comments with RSS.

  1. carldenbow516569120 said, on January 17, 2014 at 12:31 am

    Just goes to show what I’ve maintained for years: The neoConfederate movement is made up of a very small number of people who don’t represent the vast majority of southerners who while they may be proud of their southern heritage in certain cultural respects don’t adhere to an extremist agenda. In many respects in today’s South — as distinct from the time I was stationed there in the 1960s with the U.S. Navy — there is less racial prejudice than up here in Yankeeland. These idiots would undo all the progress in that area, or try to rewrite history to pretend slavery was not our great national sin or it was somehow a Yankee problem.

  2. Cotton Boll Conspiracy said, on January 17, 2014 at 7:30 am

    Yeah, but revenue from bank stock taxes is waaaaaaaaaay down, so … well … there’s that. Flaggers got to have something to hang their motley hats on, right?

  3. jerryd14Jerry Dunford said, on January 17, 2014 at 8:53 am

    My. Hall, This is another example why you blog, and the interest of history pertaining to events, actions, and battles is not it, no the real reason is this, and everyone knows it.

    YOU AND YOUR FRIENDS ARE LIBERALS WHOSE PURPOSE AND GOAL IS TO TRASH THE SOUTH, TRASH EVERYTHING THAT HIGHLIGHTS THE HERITAGE OF THE CONFEDERATE ARMY AND NAVY, TO TRASH THE PEOPLE WHO STAND UP AND SUPPORT THEIR CONFEDERATE ANCESTORS.

    Your how is that the truth about the burning, looting, rape, and murders that Lincoln and his gang of rotten men, will get hidden in the smoke of your schemes, but it is there for all to see.

    The fact that you mention those who have guts, that will travel long distances, spend a night or two, and protest against Liberal, political correct, GOOFBALLS, the people you align yourself with is a perfect example of who you are, COWARDS, who must hide the truth, run from the historical facts, and use what is happening in 2014 as in some way, a hope to improve the nasty events of 1861-65 with the unfair, rotten invasion of the South, in order to prevent their gaining Independence from those devils in the North.

    So, you cannot erase the facts, Lincoln, invaded the South, he and your ancestors bombarded, destroyed, maimed and killed civilians and soldiers, to stop my ancestors from becoming independent from the Federal controls. And slavery was not the reason, only the excuse, one of the lies told that you try to hide.

    Fly the flags all day and protest, fly the great colors of The Confederate States Army, and keep the pressure on across the land.

    • Andy Hall said, on January 17, 2014 at 9:00 am

      Happy Lee-Jackson Day, Jerry.

    • Jefferson Moon said, on January 17, 2014 at 12:11 pm

      I’m a Unionist,think Lincoln did exactly what a US president should have, honor my folk that served the Union during our Civil War,North and South, but I’m no liberal, in fact I was booted from professor Simpson’s Crossroads blog for my lack of liberalism. Need to ask you this again Jerry, in regards to your list of Union abuse during the war, what did the so called confederacy think was going to happen when they fired on US troops in a US fort on US propery, did they think at all ?

      • Brooks D. Simpson said, on January 18, 2014 at 3:22 am

        Booted for your lack of liberalism? I don’t think so. I always love how people who don’t post say they are booted. I have to find out how to do that. :) But anyone who had read my blog during the past week will see that many people one would not consider liberal have posted on it, so that must not be the issue.

        • Jefferson Moon said, on January 18, 2014 at 11:01 am

          Sure did, booted as in no longer allowed to post.Those are neo-confederate non liberals you refer to professor, I don’t think you knew how to deal with a Unionist non liberal.

  4. jerryd14 said, on January 17, 2014 at 9:01 am

    Virginia Flaggers, Hip Hip Hooray, thank you men and women who have the guts to stand up again against the Liberals of the North who want to control our lives, change history, and hide the terrible things done to the Southern people , houses and businesses burned, transportation ruined, private property stolen, women raped, civilian men , women and children maimed and killed, by Lincoln and his army of murderers.

    So fly our wonderful flag, the great battle flag of The Confederate Army of Northern Virginia, Fly it high, fly it proud, and show the truth that Andy Hall, and his Liberal friends want to attack and erase, but they cannot and will not be allowed to succeed.

    ONCE AGAIN ANDY, STOP ATTACKING THE VIRGINIA FLAGGERS, STOP ATTACKING OUR HERITAGE.

    • Andy Hall said, on January 17, 2014 at 9:03 am

      It’s not an “attack” to look at objective measures of how successful (or not) a group or organization is in achieving its stated goals.

      • carldenbow516569120 said, on January 17, 2014 at 9:52 am

        Exactly, Andy! I don’t know anything about where you stand on contemporary US politics, but I’m no liberal myself. I’m very pro-life and a social conservative. My family was Republican at the time of the Late Rebellion and many are still today. If you look closely you’ll see that crucial principles of the party have stood the test of time: freedom of opportunity, personal responsibility, equality of all people regardless of race, 1st and 2nd amendment rights, the right to earn and save capital by the sweat of your own brow and not that of another, etc.

        • Andy Hall said, on January 17, 2014 at 10:01 am

          The Virginia Flaggers’ tactics have always been about promoting themselves as protesters, even when their actions are counter-productive to achieving the long-term goals they claim to have. I’ve said before that they remind me a lot of PETA — even if you’re generally sympathetic to some of their goals, their staged confrontations and silly rhetoric make it difficult for many people to take them seriously.

          This is one of my earliest posts on the Flaggers, from almost two years ago, when I finally figured out their game. Nothing that’s happened since has changed my view on the subject:

          http://deadconfederates.com/2012/03/16/virginia-flaggers-manufactured-outrage-and-the-udc/

          • jerry Dunford said, on January 17, 2014 at 10:33 am

            Mr. Hall,

            While I completely agree with your right to your opinions, I also in this case, only voice a complaint with you, as you , like Simpson, Mackey, Dick, also Meyer once did this crap, and many others, use a history blog, a blog that seems to have been created by you to discuss The War for Southern Independence, the actions, the participants and the events.

            What this blog is attempting to do today is about none of that, it is to ridicule the actions of 2014 citizens who are protesting the removal of Confederate flags from a Southern city. Your blog is just a continuation, of attacks, criticisms, sometimes untruthful as you attract those that are Southern hatemongers, to use this site as a place to attack the flaggers and Southerners, and I would defend the same people if it were in reverse, if the site was attacking Northern flaggers for not wanting the American flag removed from a town.

            You have an opportunity to start fresh, stick to history, things that happened during the time frame of the 61-65 war, and the events leading up to the war, not 2014 flaggers who are doing nothing to change that history, but who are wanting to maintain our holidays, names of bridges, parks, towns, schools, or special events, that all were once honoring Southern leaders. I, they in no way protest or object, nor would they object, if some group wanted to remove Grants Tomb, or OTHER EXISTING MONUMENTS, OR TO CHANGE THE NAMES OF PREVIOUSLY NAMED MONUMENTS OR FACILITIES FOR NORTHERN LEADERS, CAN YOU NOT SEE THIS.

            • Andy Hall said, on January 17, 2014 at 10:38 am

              Your complaint is noted. Happy Lee-Jackson Day, Jerry.

              • Robert Moore said, on January 17, 2014 at 12:10 pm

                All I can say is… I’m Southern… a Virginian… and of the Valley. Still like to visit Lee, Jackson, the cemetery, VMI. I’ve encountered no obstacles in doing so. All are great places filled with history, even well beyond just four years that made up the Civil War. The flags hanging on the side of the road, one day a year, aren’t what draws me in… it’s the history that’s already there, and, clearly, it appears the local government hasn’t forgotten the draw-in.

            • Jimmy Dick said, on January 17, 2014 at 2:11 pm

              Jerry, Andy’s blog is telling you the truth. He uses it to present information from the past. So does Al, Brooks, Robert, Kevin, Rob, and others. You can object to what they say, but the problem is that by doing so you are objecting to what took place in the past and what the people of the time period in question said about themselves.

              These bloggers that you dislike present where they got their information and you are more than welcome to look it over. Why don’t you? Why don’t you do the historical research they do? We’ve seen the Confederate Heritage research and its highly distorted depiction of the past along with their avoidance of primary sources that would conflict with that distortion.

              There is a reason why the Lost Cause version of history is being thrown away. It is because it is false and rooted solely in a desire to present a version of history that is really a cover up for what really took place. The south itself is not being attacked, nor is anyone from the past. The only thing under attack is the false version of history. Now if that bothers you, my question is why? Do you identify yourself solely with a fictional version of history so much that it bothers you that people are rejecting it?

              • Jerry Dunford said, on January 17, 2014 at 3:29 pm

                Jimmy Dick,
                I agree with you if what Andy Hall has stated in respect to the towns economics is correct, but their is much more to this protest than economics. The Virginia flaggers protest the elimination of long held traditions, such as the flying of the Confederate Battle flag on city buildings and streets that has been eliminated by Liberal Political correct leftist. This is the importance of this protest, protesting the continuing Liberalism in our country, and as it pertains to the efforts to rid it all names, and evidence of the existence of the Confederate States of America, and it’s past leaders and it’s rightful place in American history, that is the big issue,not economics.

                One does not have to like the South, or Southern people, nor do they have to like Abraham Lincoln, but we are not trying to have The Lincoln memorial in Washington, D.C. removed, or Grants tomb, or the monuments to Federal generals, NO, AND WE WILL NOT DO THIS, BUT WE DO REJECT, AND WE DO OPPOSE OTHERS REMOVING AND CHANGING THE NAMES OF PARKS FROM THE CONFEDERATE GENERALS NAMES, OR
                CHANGING THE NAMES OF BRIDGES, BUILDINGS, OR THE REMOVAL OF OUR FLAGS, OR THE ELIMINATION OF HOLIDAYS AND OR NAME CHANGES TO THEM. This is happening to our monuments, parks, and various facilities that were honoring Confederates, this is an affront to the Southern people, leave these things alone, stop pushing this Social, Liberal crap on us. If the show was on the other foot, you would be protesting, but because it is against the Southern heritage, not the Northern Heritage, you and you friends think it is fine, SHAME ON YOU AND SHAME ON THEM FOR TRAMPLING ON OUR ANCESTORS, OUR HISTORY, OUR HERITAGE, IT IS DISGRACEFUL.

            • Michael Rodgers said, on January 17, 2014 at 5:29 pm

              Mr. Dunford, the American people have moved on and really just aren’t interested in celebrating the stillborn Confederacy as if it were anything other than that. We’re in a new century. So much has changed in America since 2000. I’m sorry, sir, no fourteen year old boy today thinks “This time” about Pickett’s charge. The South today is the New South, where the Olympics were held in Atlanta in 1996, where the governors of South Carolina and Louisiana are children of Indian immigrants, and where TEA Party conservatives wave the Gadsden flag. I mean no offense to you, sir. I have no interest in ridicule. I would not criticize you for honoring any of your ancestors. If you wish to require the American public to honor Confederate leaders, well, nowadays the public just isn’t interested and doesn’t want to. My best wishes to you, sir.

              • Jimmy Dick said, on January 17, 2014 at 6:35 pm

                Jerry,
                The real issue is that those who want to fly the CBF and glorify the Confederacy do so for the wrong reasons. That war was fought over slavery. That flag is a symbol of people who wanted to retain slavery and were willing to leave the country that their ancestors created to avoid becoming slaves. (yes, I am well aware of the paradox). A bad tradition is a bad tradition. No one is out to get rid of the Confederacy because we need to remind people of what kind of poor decisions resulted in the Civil War and how the inability to compromise leads to that kind of bloodshed. We need the Confederacy so we can show people what a nation built on the principle of enslaving others looked like. We also need to show people what the US Constitution looked like when it was created and how it allowed slavery to exist and how wrong that was.

                What we are not going to do is glorify a rebellion that was wrong. The affront to the Southern people is from the neo-confederates and those that refuse to accept factual based history in favor of a false and fictional one where the Confederacy is glorifies and justified in its treason. The people of the ENTIRE United States are moving on from the Lost Cause myths. In the process they’re making this country a better place and working on battling racism which was a mainstay of the Confederacy. It was also very evident in the whole country 150 years ago and is ending via a very long process.

                So stop saying we when you talk about rejecting things. YOU reject something. That is your choice. I embrace a history based on fact not fiction. I teach that history to my students. If you don’t like it, then go get your education and become a teacher. If not, then that’s your problem.

              • Jimmy Dick said, on January 17, 2014 at 6:52 pm

                Here is something you need to understand, Jerry. We are all Americans. Forget the South, North, white, black, Indian, whatever. All of us are just as American as the next person. It does not matter where we come from, what race, what religion, what creed, what language. America is not about where you come from. It is about a set of ideas where everyone is equal and enjoys freedom, liberty, and justice for all.

                My ancestors came from Germany. They settled western Virginia. They opened Kentucky. They fought the British in the Revolution. They moved west and south and north. They fought for the Confederacy and they fought for the Union. Some owned slaves and others didn’t. Some were lawyers and some were dirt poor farmers. That’s the white branch.

                Another branch came to this country from Asia around 8000 to 13000 years ago. They settled North America in various ways and established extensive cultures. They moved around, settled down, picked up, and moved again. Eventually they moved out onto the Great Plains and acquired horses and became the dreaded warriors that killed George Custer and over 200 of his men at the Battle of the Greasy Grass. Their lands were taken from them. Their lifestyles were denied to them. They were shoved to places that no one else wanted.

                In the past Native Americans entered my family line at several points. I don’t know about any other nationalities or races nor am I concerned with it. I am an American regardless of who was in my family line, where they came from, what god they worshipped, what language they spoke, what the color of their skin was, how much money they had, or what political party they voted for or if they even bothered to do so. So are you. So is everyone else in this country.

                What ancestors do I honor? I don’t honor them and I don’t worship them. I respect them for who they were because they lived in their times making their decisions as fit their needs, wants, desires, and interests. They did good things and they did bad things. They make smart choices and they made dumb ones. They’re like everyone else in history. If I glorify one I do so at the expense of another one. I didn’t chose them to be my ancestors. Life just does not work that way. So I just remember them for who they were and take the good, the bad, and the ugly with it.

                If you want to really honor your ancestors or anyone in history, treat them as they actually were and not as some glorified hero because one person’s hero is often someone else’s villain.

              • jerryd14Jerry Dunford said, on January 17, 2014 at 8:02 pm

                Thank you Mr. Rogers for telling me this, I feel so much better knowing that you are the person who speaks for all of America, and it is you, who has decided what I and others should not celebrate, or what my position is, and what the position is of millions of other Americans should or should not be, regarding the War for Southern Independence, and how I or others should feel about this war, and all the events that are part of that war.

                Oh, I do thank you for being respectful in your statements, but Sir, you need to know this, their are many millions of Americans that still breathe this air, and happen to love America, and while you may be assuming we are wanting to relive the war, or some such nonsense, no, but we do not wish to stand by and see our ancestors trashed, to see our Confederate leaders trashed, and or the Northern men and women trashed, just to make things pretty for the Gen Xrs, or the Millieniums that are led by the left wing godless LIBERALS, so you have a good evening sir.

          • OhioGuy said, on January 17, 2014 at 12:20 pm

            I read your earlier post, and I particularly liked your ending lines: “It’s an ever-tightening spiral of anger and bile, and it won’t result in any positive outcome; it puts off people more than it attracts. It’s an approach that unites them, but also increasingly isolates them from the rest of American society — Southerners, Civil War buffs, the general public, everybody — and that’s a dead-end road. These folks may feel like they’re circling the wagons, but increasingly it looks like they’re circling the drain.” I think it’s about time someone turned on the garbage disposal button on that drain, speaking figuratively, of course.

    • Brooks D. Simpson said, on January 18, 2014 at 3:23 am

      I hope you’re at Lexington now, Jerry. Send us a picture of you on the streets with your flag tomorrow. Thanks.

  5. Jimmy Dick said, on January 17, 2014 at 2:00 pm

    I love the information you develop on this site, Andy. I use it a lot in helping students navigate through the obstacles they encounter as they transition from high school history to college history and the various differences. This particular article is reminiscent of the one on tariffs which I have been using a bit over the past week both at school and on a different blog. It is interesting how statistics can tell us so much which makes quantification an important element in historical research, but at the same time those statistics must be examined and presented within the context of the time they are from.

    In this case these numbers are presented quite well and they do tell a story. The bottom line is that people are making the decision to attend Lee-Jackson Day and are ignoring the flag wavers. They don’t care about the flag wavers. They don’t care about their cause either. The issue of Confederate Heritage is really going to have to be decided by people regarding whether they want a historically accurate version or a mythical one. The people themselves have spoken and are abandoning the mythical past in favor of a historically accurate one.

    That’s what I like about teaching this to students. I tell them they don’t have to believe me. They have to believe the people of the past. Read what they had to say. I point them to the primary sources and a while later they come back saying, “I have never seen that stuff before. That’s not what I was told.” You can practically see the brain working as the student begins to question what they were told by others. Letting the past speak for itself is the best way to teach whenever possible.

  6. jerryd14 said, on January 17, 2014 at 8:16 pm

    Jimmy Dick, I have very little use for you, you are a damn liar, and a damn Coward. You say you are a teacher, and that is criminal for a school district to have you on their staff filling the minds of our youth with your lies.

    The War to Prevent The South from having it’s Independence, was designed for one purpose, and it was not to end slavery. If that was the reason, no war was needed, Lincoln could have gotten with congress and released the slaves in March 1861, but he did nothing.

    No, only when the Southern states were seceding, you scumbag, did Lincoln and his pushy Northern businessmen who knew that without the South, they were economically doomed, did Lincoln at their urging, and his military leaders urging do anything about the slaves. Lincoln did not like the blacks, be sure to tell those innocent students this Dick, and tell them the military had hopes of using the release of the slaves as another source of manpower Dick, and hoping the slaves would do much harm to the property and people in the south Dick, and slavery was a byproduct, and it was done not for humane reasons Dick, as Lincoln, Grant, Sherman, Hunter, Burnside, Pope, and many more of those murders were not humane individuals,

    But, You already know this, and you choose to lie, I do hope some parent, student, school administrator will read the things you write, and deal with you, as you are not fit to teach history, you are a person who is dishonest, and biased beyond belief.

    I won’t waste more words on you, as anyone seeking the truth will know these things, otherwise they are obviously liberal perverts just as you are.

    • Andy Hall said, on January 17, 2014 at 10:00 pm

      Have a good evening, Jerry. Cheer up, it’s Friday.

    • Jimmy Dick said, on January 17, 2014 at 11:06 pm

      Whatever. I really feel sorry that life has turned you into such a bitter old man. You want to teach, get the degrees and teach. Until then, just whine.

    • OhioGuy said, on January 17, 2014 at 11:38 pm

      Why pray tell did the CSA leave the Union after the election of that Black Republican Lincoln, as many Southerners called him? Was it just to prove some theoretical point about States’ Rights?

    • Brooks D. Simpson said, on January 18, 2014 at 3:26 am

      “Lincoln could have gotten with congress and released the slaves in March 1861,”

      Really? Isn’t that exactly why seven states had already left … because they believed that Lincoln’s election meant the end of slavery, sooner or later? That’s what the secessionists said at the time.

  7. Jefferson Moon said, on January 17, 2014 at 9:12 pm

    Guess I’m banned from dedconfederates as well, what a way to treat a fellow unionists.You liberal really stick together….

    • Andy Hall said, on January 17, 2014 at 9:59 pm

      Chillax. You’re not banned, but I don’t always pass through comments immediately.

    • OhioGuy said, on January 18, 2014 at 7:51 am

      Raw

      • OhioGuy said, on January 18, 2014 at 11:52 am

        I don’t know that “Raw” comment means. I didn’t post it.

  8. Neil Hamilton said, on January 18, 2014 at 9:17 am

    There is a wonderful comment by a friend of mine over at CivilWarTalk.com that I really think others should take to heart.

    “The problem with history is that it won’t stand still.”

    Pretending the American Civil War was not about slavery is an attempt to force history to stand still and, in fact, completely change that history.

    This is why the minority of those in the Confederate Heritage movement cannot move beyond their cherished beliefs or from the mythical 19th century they have fabricated.

    It moves.

    It is not frozen in time by wanting it to remain a fantasy. We learn about it and expand our knowledge from it. It can’t be helped if we are honest and factual in our study of it.

    Sincerely,
    Neil

    • Jerry Dunford said, on January 18, 2014 at 9:40 am

      Neil, that is boloney, and a major factor why these comments, and opinions continue on today.

      When the situation that existed in the 1860 time frame, a period none of us today can fully understand
      other than by the things that those who lived through it have stated with first person letters, and quotes, and such, but each year a person trying to make a dollar, or a name for them selves, writes a new book, or makes a documentary, and most are full of untruths, but their goal, 99% of them I suspect, is only to make money or fame, and not to assist in providing facts.

      So, today, tomorrow, or forever, what happened remains to be, what happened, and the reasons those events occurred remain the same. Time changes how people, who only learn about a subject from the writers I mentioned, who have distorted the facts, and then these small minded folks, who accept the lies of their teachers, like Brooks Simpson, Jimmy Dick, and others, who by design are trying to spin the history to meet their biased desires. They want the war to fit what they say, rather than for the reasons, and the events that occurred. History is just that, OR SHOULD BE, WHAT HAPPENED, WHEN, WHERE, HOW, WHO, and so forth.

      Just like the current events, Susan Rice went on TV, told America that the embassy in Benghazi was attacked by an unhappy mob because a video on the internet had been playing and they were offended.
      The fact was and is, it was a terrorist attack, by armed militants, machine guns, rocket launchers, mortars, and automatic weapons, not owned by civilians, and in no way was it a civil insurrection. It was a planned military attack.

      So just like other history, Liberals, liars, (one and the same) if you are a Liberal, you lie, want to change the narrative of what occurred, and on this fight goes. So, while you may sit back and accept the lies of these devils, I and thousands more will not, Jimmy Dick, Andy Hall, Brooks Simpson, Al Mackey and numerous others will blog their lies, distort events and the facts about them relating to the War for Southern Independence, or take your pick, the War to stop Southern Independence, it happened, and slavery was not the significant reason for this war, slavery was a bi-product, not that I am for slavery, as I am not and never have been and most Southern leaders were not for it either.

      Only read books of first hand accounts, movies, documentaries are usually half fact, half bull, so be careful of what you accept until you have crosschecked, and confirmed by multiple sources what the facts are.

      • Jimmy Dick said, on January 18, 2014 at 10:34 am

        Yes, Jerry, the people of the past did tell us exactly what the Civil War was about. SLAVERY. It is in their words and actions. We have the secession declarations. Every damn one of them says it was about slavery. We have the notes and speeches at the conventions. They were all about slavery. We have the newspaper articles and editorials and they said it was about slavery. We have the leaders of the Confederacy saying what their nation was about and they said it was about slavery. What part of that do you not understand? The part about slavery or the part where they said it was about slavery?

        Just how ignorant are you that you ignore what the people of the past said when you yourself say they left us the records? Stop running your mouth and start reading what those people said. You haven’t shown a single shred of evidence to back up your claims. All you’ve done is whine. You want to call me a liar? I can point to the documents that back up what I say and what the textbooks say. You cannot do that. All you can do is rant and rave like a lunatic.

        Where are these thousands of people who support you? There aren’t that many in the flaggers or the Southern Heritage groups. Every single year we college teachers turn out millions of students whom we have given the documents of the past to. They make their own choices based on the evidence and that evidence contradicts everything you believe in. You just live in an echo chamber where your words reach no one outside of your little circle of a few hundred people.

        I am from Missouri and if you want me to believe you then you need to show me. You can’t do that because the evidence to support your view has never existed.

      • Michael Rodgers said, on January 18, 2014 at 11:09 am

        Mr. Dunford, I’m confused by your statement that most Southern leaders were not for slavery. My understanding is that the secession declarers from South Carolina didn’t like then President-elect Lincoln because his “opinions and purposes are hostile to slavery.” Would you please help clarify my confusion? Thank you.

        • Jerry Dunford said, on January 18, 2014 at 5:44 pm

          Michael,

          First and most important, you and most all bloggers make the serious mistake in stating simple cut and dry simplistic opinions about a very complex situation, involving thousands of government officials in both the Northern Federal Government, The Southern Confederate government, 11 Southern governors, and 11 state legislatures just at the tip of the issue, not counting the businessmen, and military leaders.

          When I replied to your comments, I was conveying to you and others Jimmy The Dick) who had made numerous comments that said the purpose of the Virginia Flaggers is to glorify slavery, and that they are NEO-CONS. THESE ARE FALSE UNTRUE STATEMENTS.

          i TELL THEM AND YOU, THE WAR WAS PROCESSED BY THE NORTH, LINCOLN, HIS MILITARY LEADERS, BUSINESS LEADERS WHO COULD NOT/WOULD NOT ALLOW THE FINANCIAL LOSS THAT WOULD COME WITHOUT THE SOUTHERN STATES, AND PRESSURE FROM NORTHERN GOVERNORS WHO FOUGHT WITH LINCOLN OVER SENDING MEN INTO THE FEDERAL ARMY, DID HE PROCESS THIS WAR.

          He started his reign in March 1861, Slavery had been in effect since 1610, and had been in effect under the American Federal Government since 1788, and what did Lincoln do in 1861, about slavery, Nothing.

          What did LINCOLN DO ABOUT SLAVERY IN 1862, NOTHING.

          WHAT DID LINCOLN DO WHEN NORTHERN GOVERNORS, MILITARY LEADERS AND BUSINESSMAN URGE IN 1863, THEY URGED HIM TO FREE THE SLAVES, WHY??, 4 PRIMARY REASONS.

          1. iN HOPES THAT THE SLAVES WOULD KILL THEIR OWNERS.

          2. iN HOPES THAT THE SLAVES WOULD CAUSE DESTRUCTION ALL OVER THE CONFEDERATE STATES.

          3. IN HOPES THE SLAVES WOULD JOIN THE FEDERAL ARMY AND RELIEVE THE POLITICAL
          PRESSURE STATE GOVERNORS WERE PUTTING ON LINCOLN IN OPPOSITION TO SENDING IN
          MORE NORTHERN STATE MEN FOR ARMY SERVICE.

          4. TO HOPEFULLY IMPROVE THE NORTHERN PUBLIC SUPPORT FOR THE WAR THAT THEY WERE
          LOOSING SUPPORT FOR.

          Slavers was not the primary or main reason for this war, and President Jefferson F. Davis, did not support slavery, nor did General Robert Edward Lee, as well as most other generals, and most Confederate
          leaders, but was that true for 100 % of the people, of course not, their were black slave owners who obviously supported slavery, as I said earlier, this dogmatic, simplistic idea, that Jimmy Dick, Brooks Simpson, Andy Hall, and many Northern racists, Liberal men who love to distort and abuse the truth, are the reasons so many who do not know the historical fact, misrepresent the flaggers.

          It is a shame, in 2014, we have such dishonest adults, and to make matters worse, some of these Liars, lie regularly to school children and college students, what dishonorable scum they are for doing that.

          • Andy Hall said, on January 18, 2014 at 6:00 pm

            Jimmy The Dick

            Your next comment here will be an apology to Jimmy. Nothing else, just a straight-up apology.

            Folks here, myself included, have been far more civil to you than you deserve.

            Apologize or you’re done.

            Your call.

            • Woodrowfan said, on January 18, 2014 at 6:08 pm

              Just ban him. He just parrots the same ol’ BS and insults the rest of us.

              • Andy Hall said, on January 23, 2014 at 3:47 pm

                I figured I’d let him make that choice. He’s gone.

              • jerry Dunford said, on January 23, 2014 at 4:09 pm

                [Edit]

                No, Jerry, I have not called you any names. The reverse is not true, and you know it. You’re about the last person who should be lecturing anyone on the subject of online civility and decorum.

                Bye.

                – AH

            • Jimmy Dick said, on January 18, 2014 at 6:13 pm

              I’m still waiting for him to explain what he has against Catholics.

          • Neil Hamilton said, on January 21, 2014 at 4:10 am

            Jerry,

            Sorry it has taken me so long to reply to your above email. Let me try and answer a few of your concerns.

            First off, I read history, lots of it. Included in that history are source documents from the people, letters, declarations of the time. Movies make for entertainment, but little else to me. I like reading the original material, unchanged and in its complete fullness without it being edited or chopped to bits for easier reading.

            What I read and interpet what it means is for me, and me alone, to decide. Current events mean little to me when I study the American Civil War. I also have very little time trying to accuse others of having some sort of agenda or caring about what their political affiliations are or if they are liberals, conservatives, etc. I don’t care how they vote. I am only concerned with how they back up their claims about history with historical sources and documentation.

            And just to be clear, I am not a liberal. I am by my nature and my politics, conservative, almost to the right of Attila the Hun, and am a retired US Army Master Sergeant who was proud to serve his country.

            Now, what I meant when I referenced my friend’s saying that ‘the problem with history is that it won’t stand still’ is that our perceptions of history change because we learn more and more about it as time goes on, that one standard meaning doesn’t stand still when more evidence, sources and documentation comes to light. The old saw by some that slavery had nothing to do with the war is past thinking/excuses that simply do not stand up to those first hand accounts and source documents you tell me I must read. Point is, I have read them and they speak loud and clear as to why the South seceded at the time, for fear that slavery would not be secure under Lincoln.

            As far as I can tell from reading their blogs, Andy Hall, Brooks Simpson, Kevin Levin, Jimmy Dick and all those you rail against are not lying, but sticking to historical fact. I’m not sorry that you can’t seem to accept this, because if you had read the same documents from the period as I had, you yourself should come to the same conclusion. In other words, you are attempting to change history for whatever reason you feel you must.

            That is entirely up to you to believe what you want. But it is not up to you to decide what I believe based on my own reading and learning of the period.

            Good day,
            Neil

        • jerryd14Jerry Dunford said, on January 23, 2014 at 3:00 pm

          [Edit]

          Sorry, Jerry. You were going to apologize to Jimmy, remember? Them’s the rules.

          You’ve been treated here far more cordially, and with more respect, than you’ve shown here or elsewhere.

          See ya.

          – AH

  9. cdenbow said, on January 18, 2014 at 2:07 pm

    And, maybe Mr. Dunford should read the reports of the Deep South Secessionist Commissioners that were sent to the Upper South and border states to argue that these states too should secede. These papers were first unearthed from some dusty archive by Charles B. Dew. He then wrote a book about the papers called “Apostles of Disunion.” Interestingly, Professor Dew was not one of my Yankee brethren. He was a southern guy and somewhat of a Lost Cause believer. He has said that he grew up steeped in “Lost Cause” mythology and believed the South fought the Civil War to preserve states’ rights. If a person didn’t believe that states’ rights were the cause of war Dew said he consider him or her either “deranged or a [damn] Yankee.” However, Dew’s research as a history professor lead him to these long-ignored papers. They are stunning in their single-minded arguments for secession. The one overriding theme in them is that all slave states must secede in order to preserve slavery and the position of inferiority of the black man and the white man’s natural place of dominance. After examining these papers, Dew abandoned his lifelong belief in the Lost Cause version of history and wrote his book on the disunion movement. This is what intellectually honest people do. There’s no shame in being wrong, just in sticking to wrong-headed opinions when ample facts are presented to show the falsehood of your initial beliefs.

    • Michael Rodgers said, on January 19, 2014 at 6:52 am

      Thanks for the book recommendation. I’m going to get it from the library on Tuesday. You’ve raised an important point when you say we should look at both the secession documents/speeches and the commissioners documents/speeches. Southern secession wasn’t just about defending slavery; it was also about expanding slavery.

    • Neil Hamilton said, on January 21, 2014 at 4:13 am

      cdenbow,

      Excellent post above. I wish I had been able to make such a concise statement in my own reply to Jerry.

      Sincerely,
      Neil

  10. Michael Rodgers said, on January 19, 2014 at 6:43 am

    Regarding the original post: Lexington passed a reasonable, clear, and necessary law/regulation regarding public, not private, property. No freedoms were harmed. The VA Flaggers are protesting and boycotting as a political act.
    Hey, I’m glad they’re using their first amendment rights and enjoying themselves in the political arena. Their issue, though, is a tempest in a teapot about how the city decorates. They won’t influence the politics, and their small-scale boycott won’t work. And what’s the hope of the protest, that people will get upset from seeing all their flags?
    Bless their hearts.


Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

Follow

Get every new post delivered to your Inbox.

Join 299 other followers

%d bloggers like this: