Dead Confederates, A Civil War Era Blog

Oh, Mississippi. . . .

Posted in Memory by Andy Hall on August 18, 2018


The current Mississippi State Flag (left) and one historical variant of the Magnolia Flag (right).

Recently I got into a Facebook discussion about the state flag of Mississippi, and suggested that a better choice would be the Magnolia Flag, which is both a much older symbol of that state, deeply intertwined with its history, and also more distinctly Mississippian than the Confederate knock-off the state uses now. Naturally I was told almost immediately to “keep your mouth shut” because I’m not actually from Mississippi. Such is the nature of social media, I suppose.

But I was amused by another commenter in that thread, who (twice) posted this meme, presumably to show support among African Americans in Mississippi for retaining the current flag:

If you guessed that the man in the picture wasn’t really carrying petitions to preserve the current Mississippi flag, you’d be right — but only half right, because it’s far more ludicrous than that. He’s actually Carlos E. Moore, a Mississippi attorney who also serves as a municipal judge in Clarksdale. He made news last year when he had the state flag removed from his courtroom. The photo itself is from a local news story in 2008 that has nothing whatever to do with the dispute over the flag.

Suffice to say, I don’t think Judge Moore is going to be collecting petitions to retain the current Mississippi State Flag anytime soon.

I don’t have high expectations for the Confederate Heritage™ folks generally, but sometimes the rank dishonesty really is breathtaking, even for someone as jaded about it as I am. As I’ve said before, if you have to brazenly lie like that to preserve your “heritage,” maybe it’s not worth saving.

________

Legislative Journal_ThumbnailUpdate, August 20: Several folks in that discussion have averred that the current Mississippi State Flag was originally adopted by a public referendum — “The 1894 flag was voted by the PEOPLE. By the VOTERS.”

That’s not true, either. 

The design was adopted by the Mississippi Legislature based on S.B. 134, the passed the Senate on February 6, 1894 (pp. 350-53, PDF). It was approved by the House of Representatives the next day.

The True Southron™ struggle against objective, observable reality continues.

_______

17 Responses

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  1. Ratherdrive said, on August 18, 2018 at 6:20 pm

    That commenter you discussed, who apparently put so much effort into propagating an outright lie, obviously has no integrity whatsoever.

    • Andy Hall said, on August 21, 2018 at 1:38 pm

      I don’t know if the person who posted that created it himself or not. Memes like this tend to make the rounds on social media, although I don’t recall seeing that particular one before.

      But this sort of dishonesty really is a hallmark of this sort of posting. A while back there was a meme going around that targeted the mayor of some small town that had offended the butternut crowd, where they took his picture off the town website and Photoshopped a big hammer and sickle onto his shirt where, in the actual photo, the city seal was. It’s equal parts ridiculous and dishonest, and the intended audience doesn’t care a bit about either.

  2. Jon said, on August 18, 2018 at 7:02 pm

    Business as usual with the Lost Causers.

  3. OhioGuy said, on August 18, 2018 at 8:56 pm

    Couldn’t agree with you more Andy — on all points! I like your suggestions about the replacement flag. It even has a hint of the Confederacy with an element that resembles the Bonnie Blue Flag in the canton, without the KKK baggage of the Battle Flag of Northern Virginia. But, I’m sure they won’t listen to no damn Yankee, even if I’m trying to give them good advice with no malice.

  4. Jeffry Burden said, on August 18, 2018 at 11:19 pm

    There aren’t enough facepalm memes in the world for this.

  5. J.B. Richman said, on August 19, 2018 at 3:07 pm

    Oops… the Magnolia Flag was adopted by Mississippi in 1861(!) and all state symbols adopted by the secession convention were repealed by the post-war constitutional convention of 1865. It incorporates the “Bonnie Blue Flag” of the Confederacy in the upper left! You’ve gone from the frying pan to the fire, I’m afraid.

    • Andy Hall said, on August 21, 2018 at 1:41 pm

      Yes, the Confederates adopted that, but it was already imagery that was seen as representative of that state. The South Carolina Confederates used the palmetto is a similar way, but it’s (usually) not seen today as a distinctively “Confederate” symbol.

      • J.B. Richman said, on August 22, 2018 at 8:54 pm

        See my comment of Aug 19th at 3:30 PM! Yeah I like the tree and agree it would work without “Bonnie Blue”.

  6. J.B. Richman said, on August 19, 2018 at 3:30 pm

    Even though I pointed out some problems with the design you put out, the idea of a flag with a tree on it is a good one. Florida has a palm tree in a center seal, my ancestral homeland of Maine has a pine tree in between a farmer and a sailor, South Carolina has a palmetto and the Vermont flag also has a pine tree in a center seal.

    My home state flag has a now extinct subspecies of animal on it, and gets its colors from the flag of Mexico.

  7. CliosFanBoy Nee Woodrowfan said, on August 23, 2018 at 9:22 pm

    The Magnolia Flag is very attractive…. Although as an Ohio native I still like its flag best.

  8. Linda S. said, on July 7, 2020 at 6:17 am

    What are you talking about, if you’re not from the south how can you really know what anyone from there is truly feeling, first flags and statues which are both inanimate objects, history is unchangeable all we can do is move forward stop looking backwards and never repeat the mistakes made by those who came before us, but this anarchy that our country has going on right now is the opening for others to start a war with our country, because this makes us vulnerable

    • Andy Hall said, on July 7, 2020 at 9:27 am

      Thanks for taking time to comment.

      First, I am a southerner, for at least six or seven generations back. I’m always amused when people assume I’m from someplace else.

      Second, when you say “flags and statues which are both inanimate objects, [while] history is unchangeable,” you’re making a good argument why people shouldn’t get too worked up over flags and statues one way or another.

  9. Carl Jón Denbow said, on July 8, 2020 at 9:52 pm

    Well, Andy, we can make you an honorary Yankee! ;-). Seriously, as a member of the Longstreet Society, some think I’m a closet Confederate. It’s funny the assumptions some people will make. Just recently in a FB Civil War group, I was accused of being a northern liberal because I was saying slavery was the cause of the war and challenged their false allegation that Congress had passed a law making all Confederate veterans US veterans. For the record, I’m very conservative, particularly on social issues like abortion,

    • bedbugsmith said, on July 10, 2020 at 3:51 pm

      Here in California, our flag is blessed with the image of a grizzly bear, an impressive symbol. Though men killed them off well over a hundred years ago, the bear flag is a facsimile of the one made by Americans who rebelled against the Mexican government and paved the way for statehood. I wouldn’t be sad however if the state flag was adorned with the redwood tree, the largest living thing

      • Andy Hall said, on July 11, 2020 at 9:26 am

        California’s flag is one of the few U.S. state flags that is genuinely original in concept and design. It’s great.

      • Carl Jón Denbow said, on July 11, 2020 at 9:43 am

        I always found it puzzling that the California flag has a secessionist element to it with the words “California Republic” blazoned on it. Sort comes off to me as a threat to Federal sovereignty. Is there another state flag that flaunts independence in this manner? I don’t believe either the Texas or Vermont flags do that. They are two other former independent countries to join the Union.

        The Union Forever!

        Carl

        • Andy Hall said, on July 11, 2020 at 11:39 am

          The Texas State Flag is the same as used by the Republic in 1839-45. So that is arguably a secessionist flag (from Mexico) as well.


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