Dead Confederates, A Civil War Era Blog

“Just’a good ol’ boys, never meanin’ no harm. . . .”

Posted in Memory by Andy Hall on October 12, 2015

I wondered whatever happened with this story:

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In an unusual legal maneuver, the district attorney in this suburb of Atlanta has won indictments against 15 supporters of the Confederate battle flag, accusing them of violating the state’s anti-street gang ordinance during a confrontation with black partygoers in July, the district attorney said on Monday.

Prosecutors say that members of the group, which calls itself “Respect the Flag,” threatened a group of African-Americans participating in an outdoor party on July 25. A cellphone video of part of the episode shows several white men driving away from the party in a convoy of pickup trucks with the Confederate battle flag and other banners, including American flags, fluttering from the truck beds. . . .

The Douglas County district attorney, Brian Fortner, a white Republican elected to the office in 2014, announced the indictments in a news conference Monday morning. Each of the 15 was indicted on one count of making terroristic threats, and a second count of unlawfully participating in “criminal gang activity.”

Mr. Fortner said that the Georgia statute upon which the second charge is based, the Street Gang Terrorism and Prevention Act, is “worded very broadly to deal with any type of activity that occurs with a group that’s organized that commits a crime.”

“We respect the rights of all citizens to exercise their First Amendment right,” Mr. Fortner said. “But we’re going to require them, when doing that, to respect the rights of all of the citizens to feel safe and secure.”

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Keep in mind that truck rallies like this one have been organized and heavily promoted as a venue for expressing southern pride and heritage. Are these repulsive fools really the ones taking a stand for southern heritage?

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Update, October 16: On Thursday, the district attorney who obtained the indictments in this case issued a press release, explaining how those charges were formulated:

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Recent press reports have made prominent references to the fact that, at the time the alleged offenses occurred, some of the accused were displaying the modern adaptation of the “Confederate battle flag,” which was a flag used to identify some units of the army of the former Confederate States of America during the American Civil War. This case is not about the display of that flag. Federal courts repeatedly have held that individuals have the right under the First Amendment to the United States Constitution to publically [sic.] display that flag. . . .

In Count 1, the accused are charged with a violation of the Street Gang Terrorism and Prevention Act. The accused are charged specifically with being part of an organization, association, or group called “Respect the Flag”, which was composed of three or more persons who were associated in fact. This organization, association, or group, whether formal or informal, is alleged to have engaged in criminal gang activity by committing the offense of terroristic threats as alleged in Count 2 of the indictment.

In Count 2, the accused are charged with having committed the offense of terroristic threats. The accused are charged specifically with unlawfully threatening to commit a crime of violence to individuals who were attending a party at 9037 Campbellton Street, Douglasville, Georgia, with the purpose of terrorizing those individuals and in reckless disregard for the risk of causing such terror.

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The New York Times article I linked previously makes clear that this is an unusual application of the Street Gang Terrorism and Prevention Act, which has been on the books in one form or another since 1992, and was upheld by the Georgia Supreme Court in 2009. Its use in this case will likely be challenged, and that’s fine. I don’t know the ins and outs of Georgia law well enough to make any predictions on how that will fall out. But if these jackasses did anything like what’s been alleged, they absolutely should be prosecuted and, if convicted, go to jail.

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GeneralStarsGray

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24 Responses

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  1. Melanie said, on October 12, 2015 at 8:27 pm

    Why can’t “southern pride and heritage” ever refer to things like greens and cornbread, sweet potato pie, and some fiddle music? That would be the kind of southern pride and heritage I could get behind.

    • Andy Hall said, on October 13, 2015 at 11:22 am

      There are quite a few people who have convinced themselves that criticism or rejection of the Confederacy of 1861-65 is a “cultural genocide” against all people and things southern. It’s a ridiculous claim on its face, but it seems to fulfill their need to be oppressed victims.

  2. OhioGuy said, on October 12, 2015 at 8:39 pm

    Jeff Davis and Jubal Early would be proud of these guys. Me, I’m proud of the GOP prosecutor. So would be US Grant and that notorious carpetbagger, Albion Tourgée.

  3. Jim McGhee said, on October 13, 2015 at 8:30 am

    It sounds as if they are getting what they asked for.

    As a sidenote, while driving in Jefferson City, the state capital of Missouri, yesterday, I observed an African-American driving a green pick-up truck with a large Confederate battle flag waving from the back of same. What was that all about I wonder?

  4. Leo said, on October 28, 2015 at 10:33 pm

    Did you hear about the KKK members who were arrested and charged for bringing guns on the Ole Miss campus?
    http://www.clarionledger.com/story/news/2015/10/27/feds-kkk-members-charged-having-guns-ole-miss-campus/74670768/

    I don’t know what it is with people like that, but it’s good to see law enforcement in Georgia and Mississippi take these kind of things seriously.

    • Andy Hall said, on October 28, 2015 at 10:45 pm

      Yep. That was their second visit to campus in a week, I understand.

      Now let’s see what happens when they show up at Stone Mountain next month.

      • Leo said, on October 28, 2015 at 11:09 pm

        Pass the popcorn.

        • Andy Hall said, on October 29, 2015 at 11:13 am

          It will be interesting, for sure. The heritage crowd has spent a long, long time acting like groups like the Keystone Knights didn’t exist, or when pressed about it, issuing vague denunciations about their misuse of the noble banner for hate, etc., etc. But in practice, they spend a lot more time carping about political correctness, the NAACP, and Marxist academics than they do about the Klan and similar groups.

          Since the July rally in support of the Confederate flag in Columbia (above), though, the Klan and similar odious folks have been playing a prominent role in defending Confederate heritage, and (inevitably) their presence taints everything they touch. (If there were any administrators at Ole Miss who were undecided about taking down the state flag, I’d bet the arrival of the Keystone Knights on campus settled the question for them.) The Confederate heritage folks hate, hate, hate being publicly associated with the Klan, but now they’re actively and very publicly allied for the same cause, in practice if not entirely willingly.

          I imagine they have no idea what to do to correct this, if they even have enough perspective to recognize that it’s now an existential problem for them. In any event, I don’t think there is anything at this point that can be done; the Klan and other white nationalist groups like the League of the South have got their teeth into this issue, and they’re not likely going to let it go, so long as there are news cameras and reporters around. The heritage folks’ own unwavering commitment to that specific symbol, and willingness to ignore its history over the last couple of generations, have brought them to this point. Now they’re well and truly fncked, and no amount of personal appearances by H. K. Edgerton are going to fix it.

          • Leo said, on November 1, 2015 at 5:15 pm

            Absolutely!

  5. TD Parker said, on October 30, 2015 at 3:10 pm

    People do indeed believe all manner of strange thing. Some folks even believe that the Constitution prohibits secession. And this despite the fact in the entirety of the document, no such prohibition is ever mentioned. Not a single word against the right of a State to secede. And oddly, people still insist that secession is unlawful. Weird, just plain weird.

    • Jimmy Dick said, on October 30, 2015 at 7:29 pm

      They believe that because that is what the men who wrote the document said. James “Father of the Constitution” Madison said that secession was unconstitutional in the 1830s right after the Nullification Crisis. So when the Founders and practically every constitutional scholar has studied not only the document itself, but the writings of the men who created it and ratified it have said that secession is not allowed, that tends to be pretty cut and dried.

      Now, let’s look at who says secession is constitutional. 99% of them have no college degrees. The men who said it was constitutional back in the 19th century stood to profit financially from secession. That was their primary goal in backing secession in the first place. 99% of the people who say it is constitutional today have no college degrees. The other 1% continue to promote craptastic history that is widely ridiculed and flawed. Their interpretations are full of errors. In many cases they seem to have just flat out lied because the actual facts contradict them.

      So if you want to think it is constitutional for secession, then I question your judgement on just about everything.

      • Leo said, on November 1, 2015 at 5:16 pm

        Darn facts! 😉

    • Jimmy Dick said, on October 30, 2015 at 7:36 pm

      Oh and while we are at it, if you want to learn about the Civil War, Eric Foner’s course on it is running over on EdX. Here, let me direct you to it. https://www.edx.org/course/civil-war-reconstruction-1850-1861-columbiax-hist1-1x-1

      I am sure you will take this opportunity to pursue some actual learning from a preeminent Civil War scholar such as Eric Foner. The courses are free. This is a great opportunity to learn real history and not have to actually go to college.

      Good luck taking the course!

      • Andy Hall said, on October 30, 2015 at 8:23 pm

        Jimmy, please note that “T D Parker” is yet another alias of our friend from Virginia.

        • Jimmy Dick said, on October 30, 2015 at 10:31 pm

          Learning to him is like daylight to a vampire.

      • Leo said, on November 1, 2015 at 5:17 pm

        I highly recommend it as well!

    • Michael Rodgers said, on November 1, 2015 at 9:33 am

      The tenth amendment says powers not rights and specifically reserves to the states or the people only those powers “not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states.”

      In Article 1, Congress is delegated the power to “provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions,” and states are prohibited from entering “into any treaty, alliance, or confederation.”

      In 1860-1, several states — calling themselves slaveholding states (and declaring that their “position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery — the greatest material interest of the world”) — entered into a confederation, forces of that confederation fired on Ft. Sumter, and Congress acted to militarily execute the laws of the union and suppress the insurrection.

      • Andy Hall said, on November 1, 2015 at 11:21 am

        “T D Parker” is someone who trolls from Springfield, Virginia, under a (very long) list of aliases. I wouldn’t invest much time on him, and in any event I usually don’t let his posts through.

      • OhioGuy said, on November 1, 2015 at 11:46 pm

        Historically accurate and brilliantly said. The Federal government has the explicit right to put down rebellion. This was clear to the Founding Fathers and to the rebels of 1861. They hoped amend that provision by force of arms. They failed, thus making it clear for posterity that the Union is forever!

        • Andy Hall said, on November 1, 2015 at 11:51 pm

          Never forget that Robert E. Lee’s own father marched federalized state militia into another state to suppress a rebellion.

  6. Civil War and The Morality of a Just War said, on October 30, 2015 at 4:04 pm

    Ever since the shootings in South Carolina raging at the Confederate flag has provided a Reichstag fire moment for the NAACP and their ultraleft allies. Of course mindless aggression is always met with more mindless aggression. And a lack of self reflection on the part of the people you describe as flaggers is exhibited in equal proportion to the black lives matter group.
    It is of course no longer acceptable or polite to call ethnic groups names that are derogatory. There is however an exception to that Southern whites are regularly referred to as crackers, white trash, hillbillies, rednecks and so on. Well one could argue that they do call themselves that at times, but then is it right to appropriate that self use and use it against them? If it is in it gives full support for those who would use the N word and describing black people.

    If you want to know what terrorism is just be white and walk into almost any predominantly poor black neighborhood you’ll find that out real quick. Then there’s the knockout game and the random assaults which have been documented on tape all over the country and in the UK.
    Terrorism laws will only be enforced in a politically correct manner, as our civil rights laws and hate speech laws. Those constitutional rights to a fair trial where one is innocent until proven guilty are being assaulted by the media such as CNN and their black allies.
    George Zimmerman the multiracial was found guilty before he was found innocent and the racial rage that ensued inspired the shooter in South Carolina.
    Pointing the finger at the South as if it had sole responsibility for slavery scapegoats the vast billions that were made and the American economy through the cheap cotton and business financing in the North. Not to mention the fact that the North also had slaves quite a long period

    Yes the far right southern apologists want to use make you believe that slavery was no worse than working at Walmart. They don’t want to reflect on symbols which might be appropriate for them and their feelings about their ancestors but not appropriate and other places where people find it offensive so we draw the lines if someone possesses a Confederate flag all they have to be a racist moron. Or on the other hand I’m expressing my First Amendment rights life waving a Confederate flag in the faces of people and African-American party are social EVENT.

    Our family has always had a spot in it’s hard for the Confederate flag due to the services and sacrifices of our direct ancestors we are not generally in the habit of flying it on the flagpole but it does show up at family gatherings and picnics. I know full well that if I were to put a Confederate sticker of any kind on my car it would be vandalized and if someone were to see me some young black male is not entirely impossible he would assault me over just having the sticker. I’ve known several people had that done to them. Many Blacks they can’t be racist because a racist have have power. So tell me when you’re a small Asian child or white kid or Latino in a group of black kids twice your size and theybeat the living crap out of you all the while calingl you racial names you say that’s not racism because they don’t have political power. BULL.
    I’ve had razors put to my throat for no reason other than the color of my skin I’ve had a knife but to my throat as well I’ve been called cracker enough I thought of changing my first name the Ritz, and I feared a hell of a lot better than the Latinos and the Asians were all called shank matter what their ethnic background did in our mostly black neighborhoods.
    There is the opposite side Andy to the battle flag for lunch bunch there’s the political liberal Gestapo want to have a new Kristallnacht of all things southern. In San Diego we have a local political hack a Latina assemblywoman who has been rampaging to change an old beat up elementary school named after Robert E Lee because of his racist background. She then went and had a bill passed at the Senate that no public building or school could be named after any former Confederate soldier. Wisely enough Jerry Brown vetoed it.
    On another note I found your little article on the Confederate tartan. If you know the tartan business and that’s all it is that has little or nothing to do with history you can apply for a tartan for any group enable design one for you and create. They had them for cities even have them for rodeos. Scots did not fight in Parkinson’s kilts they wore tunics which often times had a tartan but in the heat of battle they would take them off and fight and their linen underwear. Dressing up like a 19th-century Scotsman is all fun and games and if you want to honor your ancestors by wearing the thing so be it. The halls by the way if that’s the side you’re talking were border reverse I don’t think I would call them Scots or English since the existent on both sides of the borders.
    They like the Musgrave’s, Armstrong’s, Irvine’s, Charlton’s, Dacres,
    Maxwell’s, Johnstone’s were as my 10th generation great-grandfather Sir Thomas Musgrave said Scottish at their will and English at their pleasure.

    • Andy Hall said, on October 30, 2015 at 4:34 pm

      Thanks for commenting, Mr. Musgrave. I’m glad you got so much out of your system in one post, because I probably won’t be approving others like it.

      I would respond to one thing you said, though, because I’ve read a lot of pearl-clutching nonsense about how “heritage” folks are now supposedly being targeted as “domestic terrorists.” You wrote:

      > Terrorism laws will only be enforced in a politically correct manner, as our civil rights laws and hate speech laws.

      Just to be clear, the law under which these fools in Georgia were charged has been on the books for more than 20 years, dating back to before 9/11, before Oklahoma City. It was designed to be used against groups who threats of violence to intimidate others, which is exactly what these people are alleged to have done. There have probably been hundreds, if not thousands, of successful convictions under that law, and I’d bet my lunch money that the vast majority of those defendants were African American or Hispanic. I very much doubt anyone would call those prosecutions, for substantially the same sort of behavior, as having been “enforced in a politically correct manner.” Criminal activity is criminal activity, and dressing it up as “Confederate Heritage” or whatever makes not a damned bit of difference.

      I’m content to let this case, like others work its way through the courts. But as I said, if these jackasses did anything like has been alleged, they should go to jail.

      Have a nice weekend.

      • Leo said, on November 1, 2015 at 5:22 pm

        If these people spent just a fraction of the time they focus on the NAACP on those who use the flag as a symbol of hate, they hight make some progress.

        Southern whites are the ones responsible for turning the battle flag into a hate symbol. Ranting and raving at those offended by it is beyond stupid.


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