An Open Apology to the Virginia Flaggers
I would like to take this opportunity to apologize to the Virginia Flaggers for my previous blog post, “Welcome to Crackertown (formerly Richmond, Virginia)!” That post was based on an erroneous assumption on my part, specifically that the I-95 flag would be viewed by many thousands of drivers on the freeway daily, a bold, unmistakable, scarlet landmark visible for miles around. What I didn’t fully understand was that the plan all along was to put up a 50-foot flagpole in a clearing completely surrounded by 60- and 70-foot trees — including between the flagpole and the freeway:
Ostensibly the purpose of the flag is to welcome visitors to Richmond driving north on I-95. But just 100 yards away — that’s about 3 seconds at highway speeds — the flag will not be clearly visible to drivers because of the trees. Here’s the drivers’ perspective, via Google Streetview:
Once you get directly abreast of it, this is the view from the northbound lanes of I-95:
Even the photographer from the Richmond Times-Dispatch had to get up on the Old Bermuda Hundred overpass to get a shot of it, through the trees:
The Times-Dispatch on Sunday, in an article titled, “Confederate flag difficult to see along I-95 in Chesterfield,” has this to say
The good news, of course, is that the nearly-hidden nature of the flag will protect it from would-be vandals, who will have difficulty finding it.
So please, Virginia Flaggers, accept this apology for my accusation that the I-95 flag would be seen as a bold, brash symbol that many view as one of divisiveness and bigotry. I was completely wrong about the “being seen” part, because it doesn’t look like that many people are going to see it at all.
So we’re cool now, right?
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This post was updated Sunday, September 29 to reflect the corrected view of the site from the highway.
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Dead Confederates, A Civil War Era Blog 
What a joke. They can’t even fly a historically accurate flag. Then they can’t fly one that will be seen over the trees? I wonder if Virginia’s Department of Transportation will be thinning the brush in that area any time soon? More likely they’ll be fertilizing the area and letting nature block the view of racism and ignorance.
The Flaggers argue that the flag is a specific pattern made in Richmond during the war, but it doesn’t especially matter — the “Richmond Third Bunting Issue” carries the same historical baggage as all the others.
We all love you Andy, so yes, apology accepted and hugs and kisses all around.
But while y’all yuck it up, remember that the plan was to erect the pole in secrecy,
clear an area for the dedication service, then go back and finish the area. The pix
you have now will be vintage soon as the landscape will be altered more soon (just as it was full of trees a month ago, but not now, the trees now will soon disappear also)
The secrecy thing worked like a charm, no public knowledge of the location until the news broke it Friday evening. The site will be continued to be enhanced. Check back near the end of October for more photos.
Until then, see y’all on the Boulevard at the VMFA !
I thought today was the big day. Maybe I got my calendars mixed up.
Anyway, good luck moving the overpass!
Anyway, good luck moving the overpass!
I think I just damaged my spleen laughing so much.
Why you want to fly a symbol of racism and ignorance is beyond me. You will never control the message. So anyone that sees that piece of shit is going to be asking themselves, “What asshole is stupid enough to fly that racist rag?” This is blowing up in your face and you can’t even figure that out.
Mr. Dick you sho are full of yourself ani’t you now. It must be great being as smart as you are and you are shuck a nice person who respects other folks opinions bless your heart.
Not to waste good time replying to such as Jimmy Dick and his other members of the ” short school bus riders club ” for those who have dificulty understanding this, the raising of the Confederate Flag is in no way associated with anyone, but those of us wanting to honor our faithful ancestors that we love. Their is no thought by us of racisim, slavery, ect. This is as simple and akin to placing flowers on the graves of your loved ones. That’s it, so while many of you want to fight and argue, that is really too bad, our country needs patriots, men and women to uphold our laws, to defend our nation by joiining the military and doing a tour which every abled bodied man should have the courage and sense of duty to do. If you did this honorably, I say THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE TO OUR NATION, But to whine, and state ” we don’t want you flying your flag, on your property, which is your right, but we just don’t want you to have any rights, we want to trample all over your rights” when you read this, does it make you feel like a proud American, a proud son, or father, do you teach your children to behave this way, did your mother and father teach you to act in this selfish hateful manner, if they did, shame on them. You should support Americans legal rights, not walk on them or harass
other Americans who are in no way bothering you.
Go and do something worthwhile, I and those who love their ancestors will always be here, we do not adjust our plans according to some cry baby who just wants to show how they can be nasty, and accomplish nothing.
So, I have better things to do, you say whatever you wish, and I will not reply again to your empty thoughts.
Jerry Dunford
It’s all kind of moot, given that it can barely be seen from the highway anyway.
“Until then, see y’all on the Boulevard at the VMFA !”
Except for Susan Hathaway.
… remember that the plan was to erect the pole in secrecy,
clear an area for the dedication service, then go back and finish the area.
Seems like a pretty sneaky way to go about displaying something you evidently think is worthy of reverence.
When your groups keep things secret from friends like Andy, you get his advice as criticism (afterwards instead of before), when it’s too late. Do you guys even own the land you’re developing?
They leased it.
OMG, and if someday the leaseholder wants to end the lease, they’ll picket him to death??
That’s one option.
Several news stories from August say that the Flaggers were going to “buy” the property, but this is Susan Hathaway’s statement:
“The Va Flaggers are THRILLED to announce that we have finalized a lease to acquire property adjacent to Interstate 95, just South of Richmond, and will be erecting a 50’ pole, on which a 10 x15 Confederate Battle Flag will fly 24/7, 365 days of the year,” Hathaway wrote. “The flag will serve to welcome visitors and commuters to Richmond, and remind them of our honorable Confederate history and heritage.”
A lease is a rental; a “lease to acquire” may be something different. Perhaps someone who knows will provide documentation, but it still sounds to me like a rental. With the “complete this project at a cost of just under $3,000,” that doesn’t sound like a purchase.
LOL!!! the losers flag loses again. You people need to give it up.
Pardon my French, but who really gives a damn? It’s just another flag, void of context, lining the highways of the South. Anyone unfamiliar with the VA Flagger’s Highway Flag will have no way of differentiating between the Flaggers and the numerous other groups that put up flags.
The Texans are gonna thump the Seahawks tomorrow. That’s important.
Denver over Philadelphia by at least 14 points!
Okay, 32 points, but they still whipped the Eagles. I’m wondering just how many points they’ll put up on the Jags in two weeks. Could a 28 point spread be out of the question?
“void of context”
Sorta like your blogs.
George, I’ve wasted far too much time in the past trying to discuss things of substance with you, in which you alternate between (1) posting things that are irrelevant to the discussion, (2) insulting people who disagree with you, and (3) declaring your own victory, over and over.
Al Mackey and Rob Baker have invested a lot of time in humoring you, and I’m just not going to do it now as I did before. So behave yourself or you’ll get deep-sixed here just like you did there.
NJot a problem with me. If you and your bunch of bigots want to insult me and my heritage i will give like replies in retiurn. Mackey and Baker are at best biased in their posts and their presentation of facts. Read therir blogs it is easy to see. You aren’t much different.
If it is facts you want then stop all insults and we will deal strictly in fact.
Oh and nothing stopping me from opening my owen trasy blaog and doing the same thing you do. Think about it.
George Purvis
Southern heritage Adavncement Preservation and Education
More insults? Fine, you’re done here. Good luck with your “owen trasy blaog,” George.
Shame on you Andy !
Now just suppose the Flag had been in a more prominent location, with 360 visibility setting high on a hill top.
Why I bet your buddies would have said, “Look at em, sticking THAT Flag in everyone’s face”
Dammed if ya do and Dammed if ya don’t.
I look at the overpass as a bonus, it will extend the life of the flag by protecting it from winds that come out of the North, We folks down South know how destructive things outta the North can be.
As for the trees that are still there, “Chainsaw”
The invitation is still there, drop on by the trailer park when you are in town, I got lotsa Pabst Blue Ribbon, and I just found my lawn darts, I’m gonna put glow sticks on em so we can play after dark !
Hope to see ya soon !
You wrote:
Quite possibly. But at least the Flaggers wouldn’t look incompetent, which is kinda the way things appear now. The whole point is for the flag to be seen, and after all the build-up to the event on Saturday, it’s not very visible.
Thanks for the correction on the location, though. I’ve replaced the Streetview image to reflect that. Don’t be too righteous about my error, though — if the Flaggers are going to play it’s-a-secret-location-and-we’re-not-telling-where, they can’t really be too indignant if someone (me) gets to position off by a hundred yards or so. More transparency on the part of the Flaggers — and I include you in that, since you claim to have been part of an intentional hoax on this — would have avoided misunderstanding. (Claiming you’ve intentionally put out false information with the intention of misleading others also doesn’t do your own reputation for trustworthiness any good, for those who care about such things.)
Anyway, we’ll see what happens with the trees.
Have a good time at the picnic, Dave.
Close only counts in Horseshoes and hand grenades,
Don’t blame the flaggers for the VDOT camera hoax, that was me 100%,
Sometimes ya gotta give the Spy’s some bad information.
Sun Tzu wrote “. It is owing to his information, again, that we can
cause the doomed spy to carry false tidings to the enemy”
Andy you sound a little miffed at my deception, to tell ya the God’s honest truth I didn’t know the location of the flag until a few hours before the dedication. And I ain’t too worried about the floggers perception of my integrity. After all you guys got Corey to deal with so ya hadn’t ought to worry over me none.
Now then if you check the Flaggers statement it says the flag will be visible to North bound traffic,
Hmmmm? since we have no divider like hills or trees or sound walls on the south part of I-95 in Chester that might give ya a clue, (ya think ?) or maybe the Romulian cloaking device will only work in one direction.
As for the trees that are currently on site blocking the flag, hopefully next winter they will be cut up and in my fireplace.
The offer still stands, PBR and Lawn Darts just drop on by.
I’m not “miffed” at your deception, Dave, because I never quite followed it in the first place. The important thing about that episode, seems to me, is that you’re proud of having intentionally spread untruths about the project with the the intent of making its critics look foolish. While being taken in by your falsehoods may make the critics look naive and foolish, it makes you look dishonest.
Looking over the rules about planting along I-95 and other roadways in Virginia reveals that planting trees along that highway is encouraged for a lot of reasons. Removing the trees may not be allowed. The Flaggers definitely cannot cut down any trees on public property. Since the Flaggers are only leasing the land they may not have rights to cut down some trees. Also, the trees are part of erosion control projects so they’ll probably need a permit to clear the area between the symbol of racism and the highway which I’m willing to bet will be denied.
The erosion thing in an important consideration, and leads to a second issue — the flag’s in a gully, with higher terrain all around, that drains down toward the road. Anytime they have a long, heavy rain, that whole area is gonna be a wet, soggy mess.
Y’all Did not need my VDOT deception to make the floggers look foolish.
You have a good evening, Dave.
It’s a good thing Dav leaves his webcam on when he makes these comments. It gives us excellent video of his demeanor
Dave’s defensiveness is completely understandable, so we should cut him some slack.
As for the dog, we had a dog made grunty noises like that once, but we started putting more fiber in his diet and that cleared it right up.
Ha!
hey Andy. Good pictures however the falg is there iit is up and flying and that is what torques the jaws of you and your partners.
Just whated you to know i got here from Al mackeys trashy blog.
V-A-F-L-A-G-G-E-R spells “Incompetent” at well you know you are his bud. Any speaking of incompentent that reminds me so much of the trash mackey posts on a Book with no Credibility. Oh well to make a long story short Mackey can’t deal with the real facts and blocked me from posting. I mean he hasn tafter so many months to post one document that proves the South went to wear to preserve slavery and he doesn’t even know the real reason Sherman didn’t free the POWs at Andersonville. He doesn’t get it yet the North was and still is more racist thanthe South!!!! Now that is incompent.
Andy you are not the type to hide behind the edit button are you???
Your Friend,
George Purvis
Southern Heritage Advancement Preservation and Education
All lit up…behind the trees where no one can see the symbol of racism and ignorance. Epic failure from a group that is nothing but an epic failure.
Gee Dick I look at the photos and i cannot see any sign of racists present. Tell me how do you do it? Perhaps i need to go back to Licoln whose comment — I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races,that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the
white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race.
Perhaps I should look up some photos of the KKK marches in washington in the early 1900s ato see what flag they were using. Maybe i should look up the treatment of the Indians and see how they were treated. maybe another good subject would be race riots in Amaerica. Were there more in the North or South.
What say yea Dick have you ever look up these subjects????
george Purvis
Southern heritage Advancement Preservation and Education
Jimmy said “symbol of racism and ignorance,” not “racists.” Lincoln’s personal views on race are not especially relevant here, either.
Closing this thread for now.
Looks like the usual standard line of defense from the Lost Causers. “When you’re getting pounded and can’t win that point, engage Straw Man tactics and select from the following options.”
It isn’t education for them. It is obfuscation.
That’s just how he rolls. Always has been.
Referring to me?? At least I will stand up and do battle out in the open with ALLL takersI don’t have to hide behind an edit/delete button like you, Al Mackey,or Rob Baker..
GP
Yes, referring to you. Have a nice day, George.
As usual got to post your cute little ignorant remarks. Don’t get mad just cause you can’t hang with me on facts.
BTW I like it when you refer to me with such remarks, sends a thrill up my leg because I know you are trying your best
Yes and it is the usual line for neo-yankees. I am losing??? Seems to me the flag is up and that getsa your opanties in a wad. Note the attention the falg is getting on this one blog!!!!!!!!! Good going boys!!!!!!
BTW did you ever look up those KKK photos from the Washington marches and see the real flag of racism???
george Purvis
Would you lioke to take me on regarding facts??? let’s see I say slavery was not the cause of the war and the North fired the first shot.
Prove me wrong Dick.
George Purvis
Southern Heritage Advancement Preservation and Education.
Let’s not, George.
Reasonable question– why not? I thought facts were wbnhat we were dealing with
Reasonable answer — because (1) it’s not relevant to this blog post and (2) as we saw with Peter Phelps a couple of years back, you’re either unwilling or unable to acknowledge direct evidence that suggests you’re wrong. You just ramble about how you’re committed to “facts.”
If you can’t simply acknowledge the reality of the evidence in as simple and obvious a case as that one, there’s no point in trying to discuss complex ones.
Why don’t you roll out your manufactured facts before I drop over 8000 pages of documentation on you that you can you use the search function and look up the word slavery? Not a page will have been written past the year 1861.
The only thing you can prove is your ignorance, George. I don’t have to prove anything to a pissant like you because the facts are there in the actual documents. Everything you come up with has been refuted successfully by a lot of historians. The facts are that you choose to deliberately ignore them. So I’m going to waste me valuable time when all you will do is build the usual straw man argument which you always do.
Prove your facts. Provide documentation and don’t even think about producing something you cherry picked because you’ll get crushed by the context.
George is gone, Jimmy. It doesn’t really matter, as he’s impervious to evidence anyway. Go look at the Peter Phelps post comments to see how George willfully ignores a stack of primary source documents, all while demanding “facts.”
He sent a follow-up message saying he’d expected me to block him. Well, of course — for the same reason others have blocked him. The only difference here is that I’m not willing to get strung along for weeks.
He has his own website where he can discuss all the “facts” he wants.
Shoot Andy I forgot to mention — you neo-yankees always ask why don’t you take back your flag? We are and you folks just can’t stand it.
GP
You have a nice evening, George.
and you as well. It was a beautiful evening on the Mississippi gulf Coast now the rain has moved in.
I’ll believe you’re really serious about taking back “your” flag the day I see a bunch of you Heritage folks picketing a Klan rally, carrying signs saying “Stop using our flag, you racist morons!” (Or an Aryan Nations rally, or Christian Identity, or … well, you get the picture. I’m not all that choosy about which gaggle of racist morons’ grills you get up in.)
Until that time, reasonable people are liable to conclude you don’t really mind sharing “your” flag with racist morons. Especially when the collective albedo of your group is somewhere in the vicinity of “polar ice cap”. Whatever Lost Cause glamor you may attach to it, the reality is “your” flag is widely used and therefore widely seen as a symbol for a virulent, often murderous brand of racial hatred.
And it’s not as if the Klan and virtually every other white supremacist group in this country just one day threw a dart back over their collective shoulder at a “Historical Flags of North America” poster. There’s a reason — actually, a whole bunch of reasons — they chose as they did.
It’s obvious the Flaggers are either deliberately ignorant of this historical baggage, or it just doesn’t bother them.
been there done that. Biloxi, Mississippi. You won’t find it in the Sun herald, they refuse to cover anyone who triesto show the CSA in a positive light. I think Mike kelly of the 37th Texas reanct. had a mention on his pages at one time. Also you might check out the Mississippi flag vote. And I have a letter of protest send to the KKK and a reply. It is on my other Computer which will be hooked up this weekend. Would you like a copy? Wanna makea friendly Wager on what the letter says???
And one more thing– there is no law against the KKK using any flag US or CSA.
As far as the heritage baggage, I know where the lies begin — on bloags such as this.
Your turn neo Yankee.
George Purvis.
Southern Heritage Advancement Preservation and Education.
Neo-Yankee?
Listen, friend, my family’s been in the South since the late 1700s on my mother’s side, and the 1880s on my dad’s. My great-great-grandfather was captured at Fort Donelson, and imprisoned at Camp Douglas in Chicago, until he was paroled in North Carolina. I grew up here in the South and it’s where I’ve spent most of my life.
Out of deference to Andy, I try to keep my language in check when I comment in these threads. But I’m sure we both know what I’d like you to do to yourself with that ludicrous neologism.
So let’s see: the big counter-protest against the Klan at Gettysburg consisted of nine re-enactors silently turning their back on the Klansmen? Sounds pretty feeble to me. In the interview he gave on the Bivouac site, “Colonel” Kelly is remarkably vague about just exactly what they did in Biloxi; none of the news outlets I could find bothered to mention it, although there were multiple stories about the march and counter-protests. (But of course, it’s all a news media conspiracy, right?)
WLOX did say, in reference to a march by the Klan which took place in November of 2002, that:
Wallace Mason of the Sons of Confederate Veterans says no one representing
their group was at the march. Mason says the SCV voted to ignore the Klan
and the march
Now there’s a profile in courage for you. I guess they felt it was ok for the Klan to borrow the flag for a while, as long as they gave it back when they were finished. (Although I hear bloodstains can be tricky to remove.)
Of course, we could be talking about different events. If so, please let us know.
As for your letter of protest and the reply you got, there’s this wonderful new technology by which documents may be easily scanned, uploaded and made available for view via free websites to anyone who has access to a web browser. I should think you’d be proud to share it with the world, not just me.
Be that as it may, you’re still dancing around the issue of why the Klan and Friends picked that particular symbol. And if you’re going to accuse Andy or others here of lying, why not identify a few of those lies?
I appreciate the explanation by Dave Tatum and others about the subtle strategy around this flag raising. They were cleverly lulling us into a true sense of security.
Matt,
For myself, after all of this, the only thought that comes to mind is:
“That’s all?”
Well, at least the company/nation/outfit that made the flag got something out of it.
Sincerely,
Neil
Yup. Even Grayson Jennings, A-List Virginia Flagger, isn’t trying to explain this, over at the Richmond newspaper in the comments. Apparently it was not intended to be seen year-round:
Or for that matter, why do drivers on I-95 need to see it at all?
Sheesh.
Andy,
“The soldiers can see it….that’s all that matters?”
Someone needs reminding that funerals are for the living as the dead are past caring.
Sincerely,
Neil
After seven weeks of interviews, calls for donations, YouTubes, Facebook — even posing on the Capitol steps with their new flag — all for the stated purpose of raising a flag to be seen by visitors driving into the city, one of the lead Flaggers now says it doesn’t matter if people on the freeway can’t see it.
Ridiculous.
Andy,
That’s because it is “Blind Faith, not Heritage.”
Neil
This site has worked just like fly paper, it has attracted the many MORONS in this area who have no knowledge of history relating no only to the War for Southern Independence, but about America.
They are obviously young ill bred young men, who likely have very limited intelligence, ill upbringing, and why this next suggestion is only an indicator of their character, they very likely have no passion for America, they likely were to gutless to serve in the U.,S. Armed Forces. In other words these are the bottom of the barrel
new generation of young people who contribute nothing but noise to our society.
So Morons, go somewhere else and play, while those of us who had brave ancestors, ancestors who were and did die for their states are doing something to honor our heritage, I guess you will have to go build a sandcastle or some other stupid thing to honor your ancestors, if you even know who they were.
Jerry Dunford
You have a nice day, Jerry.
This post of yours doesn’t even make sense. Those who celebrate heritage while ignoring history contribute nothing to their ancestors.
And, if you want to really be picky, what do you do when the people you don’t like did serve in the military and have a long list of ancestors who have been in this country for over 13,000 years? If you want to be picky and just go with the ones where have only been here for 300 years that’s fine too.
I think that people with limited intelligence ignore facts in favor of fiction.
Their argument is equivalent to “My girlfriend won’t sing our song anymore, so I’m going to picket her until she agrees to do so forevermore because otherwise I’m accepting her judgment that I’m a loser.” The obvious response to that argument is “Otherwise?”. No more response is called for. However, we often feel obliged to tell them the whole truth “Your girlfriend never loved you; she was just using you to spread slavery.” But they’ve got more stages of grief to go through yet. They’re not ready for the truth.
The truth is relevant. The Virginia Flaggers are ardent disciples of The Sentinel of the Confederate Dead and The Ossuary of the Unknown. The Divan of the Veil is a braintrust of 15 scholars who have interpreted the Secret Order of Staff. The original Sentinel has slept with the Confederate Dead for over a decade. The Sentinel is the overseer of the post 1865 reality of the Confederate Army and resides in the shadows of the realm. The Sentinel stands before you and remains true as they remain invisible. the Sentinel is nationwide without marketing or advertisement. The Dark Force of Reason.
Exactly. I think.
SCD, Sentinel of the Confederate Dead, Grand Scribe of the Arcane: Why are we activists? Let us begin with a simple exercise. Acquire a legal pad and a new pen. Begin on Page 1 with the number zero in the left hand corner. Continue writing consecutively until you reach the number 620,000. After you complete this task, be proud of your accomplishment and show the stack of your work to your next door neighbor or that person that you always wanted to impress at your local convenience store. After this mission is complete, on the third day, bury your work in your backyard. Emperor Lincoln would be proud of your effort and just might send you a personal postcard from Hell
Uh, okay.