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	<title>Comments for Dead Confederates, A Civil War Era Blog</title>
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	<link>http://deadconfederates.com</link>
	<description>No real Confederates were harmed in the making of this blog.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 24 May 2013 14:18:34 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on Florida to Dedicate CW Wreck as Underwater Archaeological Preserve by Andy Hall</title>
		<link>http://deadconfederates.com/2013/05/23/florida-to-dedicate-cw-wreck-as-underwater-archaeological-preserve/#comment-8256</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Andy Hall]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 May 2013 14:18:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deadconfederates.com/?p=15539#comment-8256</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The Navy has used the phrase &quot;war grave&quot; for a long time in asserting its legal authority over its wreck sites. In this case, sine the ship and crew were lost some months after the conflict ended, it&#039;s certainly a misnomer, although I&#039;m sure the Navy would not view these peacetime casualties as being less deserving of protection, and I think most people would probably agree.

Interestingly, the origins of the Navy&#039;s policy regarding the protection of human remains goes back into the decade immediately following the war, with the wreck of U.S.S. Tecumseh, lost in the Battle of Mobile (where Narcissus was present), and in the 1960s to a CW-era steam tug in Maryland similar to Narcissus:



&lt;blockquote&gt;Human Remains

Where human remains are concerned, United States Navy policy has been clear for some time: &quot;salvors should not presume that sunken U. S. warships have been abandoned by the United States. Permission must be granted from the United States to salvage sunken U.S. warships, and as a matter of policy, the United States Government does not grant such permission with respect to ships that contain the remains of deceased servicemen... &quot; (DOS 1986; UNESCO 1994). This is not a new policy as the Navy&#039;s involvement with USS Tecumseh illustrates. Tecumseh was lost in 1864 during the battle of Mobile Bay with 93 men on board. In 1873, Tecumseh was sold for salvage by the Department of the Treasury to James E. Slaughter of Mobile for $50 (West 1995:27). After the purchase, Slaughter let it be known that he intended to use explosives to blast the wreck into salvageable pieces to recover iron and possibly the ship&#039;s safe. In 1876, the relatives of the men lost on Tecumseh petitioned Congress to stop this salvage. Congress quickly passed Joint Resolution No. 23 on August 15, 1876 directing the Secretary of the Treasury to return the $50, with 6% interest to Slaughter and empowered the Secretary of the Navy to assume control and protection of Tecumseh. Congress stipulated that any salvage must provide for the removal and proper burial of the remains of the crew. Another example from the Civil War, concerns the remains of the crew of USS Tulip. A boiler explosion sent Tulip and most of her crew to the bottom of the Chesapeake Bay. Only a few bodies were recovered, and these were buried on shore within site of the disaster. Correspondence in Navy files dating to at least three periods in 1929, 1951, and 1967 show continued Navy concern over the remains of both the crew members buried ashore and those carried down with the ship (Ellicott 1929; Heffernan 1951; [Eller] 1969). The Navy refused a 1967 request from a diving club for salvage rights to Tulip primarily on the basis of &quot;nondesecration of crew members entombed in sunken naval vessels. &quot; Other considerations were ordnance still on board and damage to the historic and archaeological integrity of the site.

Conclusions

The refusal of permission to the salvage of Tulip shows that as early as 1967 the Navy considered such wrecks to be war graves and of historic significance. The Navy staff involved were from the Naval Historical Center and the Navy JAG, Admiralty Division. The individuals in these Navy branches foresaw the importance of sunken ships and aircraft for interpreting the history of the United States and its Navy. Today, the Navy recognizes that it has under its jurisdiction some of the most significant historical properties within the United States. Many, if not all of the Navy&#039;s sunken warships, are eligible for listing on the National Register of Historic Places, for these are reminders of the actions and events that forged the nation. These sunken vessels and aircraft also represent the courageous actions of those Americans who have earned a permanent place in United States history and are the final resting place for many who sacrificed their lives for their country. Sovereign immune status is a key concept and doctrine for all those who seek to protect a nation&#039;s naval heritage, whether U.S. or foreign, from willful destruction and wrongful taking. It is also the raison d&#039;etre for the Navy&#039;s policy concerning its ship and aircraft wrecks.&lt;/blockquote&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Navy has used the phrase &#8220;war grave&#8221; for a long time in asserting its legal authority over its wreck sites. In this case, sine the ship and crew were lost some months after the conflict ended, it&#8217;s certainly a misnomer, although I&#8217;m sure the Navy would not view these peacetime casualties as being less deserving of protection, and I think most people would probably agree.</p>
<p>Interestingly, the origins of the Navy&#8217;s policy regarding the protection of human remains goes back into the decade immediately following the war, with the wreck of U.S.S. Tecumseh, lost in the Battle of Mobile (where Narcissus was present), and in the 1960s to a CW-era steam tug in Maryland similar to Narcissus:</p>
<blockquote><p>Human Remains</p>
<p>Where human remains are concerned, United States Navy policy has been clear for some time: &#8220;salvors should not presume that sunken U. S. warships have been abandoned by the United States. Permission must be granted from the United States to salvage sunken U.S. warships, and as a matter of policy, the United States Government does not grant such permission with respect to ships that contain the remains of deceased servicemen&#8230; &#8221; (DOS 1986; UNESCO 1994). This is not a new policy as the Navy&#8217;s involvement with USS Tecumseh illustrates. Tecumseh was lost in 1864 during the battle of Mobile Bay with 93 men on board. In 1873, Tecumseh was sold for salvage by the Department of the Treasury to James E. Slaughter of Mobile for $50 (West 1995:27). After the purchase, Slaughter let it be known that he intended to use explosives to blast the wreck into salvageable pieces to recover iron and possibly the ship&#8217;s safe. In 1876, the relatives of the men lost on Tecumseh petitioned Congress to stop this salvage. Congress quickly passed Joint Resolution No. 23 on August 15, 1876 directing the Secretary of the Treasury to return the $50, with 6% interest to Slaughter and empowered the Secretary of the Navy to assume control and protection of Tecumseh. Congress stipulated that any salvage must provide for the removal and proper burial of the remains of the crew. Another example from the Civil War, concerns the remains of the crew of USS Tulip. A boiler explosion sent Tulip and most of her crew to the bottom of the Chesapeake Bay. Only a few bodies were recovered, and these were buried on shore within site of the disaster. Correspondence in Navy files dating to at least three periods in 1929, 1951, and 1967 show continued Navy concern over the remains of both the crew members buried ashore and those carried down with the ship (Ellicott 1929; Heffernan 1951; [Eller] 1969). The Navy refused a 1967 request from a diving club for salvage rights to Tulip primarily on the basis of &#8220;nondesecration of crew members entombed in sunken naval vessels. &#8221; Other considerations were ordnance still on board and damage to the historic and archaeological integrity of the site.</p>
<p>Conclusions</p>
<p>The refusal of permission to the salvage of Tulip shows that as early as 1967 the Navy considered such wrecks to be war graves and of historic significance. The Navy staff involved were from the Naval Historical Center and the Navy JAG, Admiralty Division. The individuals in these Navy branches foresaw the importance of sunken ships and aircraft for interpreting the history of the United States and its Navy. Today, the Navy recognizes that it has under its jurisdiction some of the most significant historical properties within the United States. Many, if not all of the Navy&#8217;s sunken warships, are eligible for listing on the National Register of Historic Places, for these are reminders of the actions and events that forged the nation. These sunken vessels and aircraft also represent the courageous actions of those Americans who have earned a permanent place in United States history and are the final resting place for many who sacrificed their lives for their country. Sovereign immune status is a key concept and doctrine for all those who seek to protect a nation&#8217;s naval heritage, whether U.S. or foreign, from willful destruction and wrongful taking. It is also the raison d&#8217;etre for the Navy&#8217;s policy concerning its ship and aircraft wrecks.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>Comment on Florida to Dedicate CW Wreck as Underwater Archaeological Preserve by Robert Maresz</title>
		<link>http://deadconfederates.com/2013/05/23/florida-to-dedicate-cw-wreck-as-underwater-archaeological-preserve/#comment-8255</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Robert Maresz]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 May 2013 13:24:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deadconfederates.com/?p=15539#comment-8255</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Is it appropriate to list the site as a &quot;war grave&quot;? That seems like borderline dis-information.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is it appropriate to list the site as a &#8220;war grave&#8221;? That seems like borderline dis-information.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Lexington Flag Case, Reidsville Monument Updates by Ken Noe</title>
		<link>http://deadconfederates.com/2013/05/17/lexington-flag-case-update-2/#comment-8240</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ken Noe]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 May 2013 15:46:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deadconfederates.com/?p=15552#comment-8240</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As you well know.  As other friends of mine well know.  It&#039;s nothing to be proud of.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As you well know.  As other friends of mine well know.  It&#8217;s nothing to be proud of.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Comment on Lexington Flag Case, Reidsville Monument Updates by Andy Hall</title>
		<link>http://deadconfederates.com/2013/05/17/lexington-flag-case-update-2/#comment-8238</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Andy Hall]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 May 2013 14:53:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deadconfederates.com/?p=15552#comment-8238</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The Confederate heritage movement is very tolerant of threats and violent rhetoric being directed at people it disagrees with.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Confederate heritage movement is very tolerant of threats and violent rhetoric being directed at people it disagrees with.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Comment on Lexington Flag Case, Reidsville Monument Updates by Ken Noe</title>
		<link>http://deadconfederates.com/2013/05/17/lexington-flag-case-update-2/#comment-8237</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ken Noe]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 May 2013 14:42:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deadconfederates.com/?p=15552#comment-8237</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[While I would have left it where it was, what most stands out to me in that correspondence are the sad reported threats to Ms. Ezell and to the mayor.  There&#039;s no good excuse for that.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I would have left it where it was, what most stands out to me in that correspondence are the sad reported threats to Ms. Ezell and to the mayor.  There&#8217;s no good excuse for that.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Comment on Lexington Flag Case, Reidsville Monument Updates by Billy Bearden</title>
		<link>http://deadconfederates.com/2013/05/17/lexington-flag-case-update-2/#comment-8233</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Billy Bearden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 May 2013 01:42:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deadconfederates.com/?p=15552#comment-8233</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Update 
The once Reidsville Confederate Statue is now by Ezell edict
the &quot;Rockingham County Confederate Statue&quot; via bronze plaque
bearing her name.  The good folks in Reidsville are livid....]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Update<br />
The once Reidsville Confederate Statue is now by Ezell edict<br />
the &#8220;Rockingham County Confederate Statue&#8221; via bronze plaque<br />
bearing her name.  The good folks in Reidsville are livid&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Lexington Flag Case, Reidsville Monument Updates by Billy Bearden</title>
		<link>http://deadconfederates.com/2013/05/17/lexington-flag-case-update-2/#comment-8232</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Billy Bearden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 May 2013 01:40:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deadconfederates.com/?p=15552#comment-8232</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Corey,
 It was hit one time in 101 years. That is extremely safe.
However, the cemetery to which Ezell has mandated it go 
is the home to numerous drunks and druggies. Graves are
regularly subject to tipping, breakage or vandalism there.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Corey,<br />
 It was hit one time in 101 years. That is extremely safe.<br />
However, the cemetery to which Ezell has mandated it go<br />
is the home to numerous drunks and druggies. Graves are<br />
regularly subject to tipping, breakage or vandalism there.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Comment on &#8220;We don&#8217;t undertake many things which we don&#8217;t surpass in&#8221; by Pat Young</title>
		<link>http://deadconfederates.com/2013/05/20/we-dont-undertake-many-things-which-we-dont-surpass-in/#comment-8231</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Pat Young]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 May 2013 23:59:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deadconfederates.com/?p=15591#comment-8231</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Here on Long Island, Old Bethpage Village Restoration has an extensive old time baseball program. https://www.facebook.com/pages/Old-Time-Base-Ball-at-Old-Bethpage-Village-Restoration/287120911655]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here on Long Island, Old Bethpage Village Restoration has an extensive old time baseball program. <a href="https://www.facebook.com/pages/Old-Time-Base-Ball-at-Old-Bethpage-Village-Restoration/287120911655" rel="nofollow">https://www.facebook.com/pages/Old-Time-Base-Ball-at-Old-Bethpage-Village-Restoration/287120911655</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on Lexington Flag Case, Reidsville Monument Updates by Andy Hall</title>
		<link>http://deadconfederates.com/2013/05/17/lexington-flag-case-update-2/#comment-8230</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Andy Hall]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 May 2013 20:33:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deadconfederates.com/?p=15552#comment-8230</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There&#039;s no way to know if or when it would get hit again. It&#039;s essentially a random event. It could be another hundred years, or tomorrow. The only thing for sure is that the likelihood goes up as the town grows and traffic increases.

But the bottom line is that it&#039;s the UDC&#039;s monument, and they get the final say. I was struck by one person who suggested that &quot;ownership should have been given to the local SCV.&quot; Who, exactly is supposed to &quot;give&quot; ownership, and under what legal theory?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s no way to know if or when it would get hit again. It&#8217;s essentially a random event. It could be another hundred years, or tomorrow. The only thing for sure is that the likelihood goes up as the town grows and traffic increases.</p>
<p>But the bottom line is that it&#8217;s the UDC&#8217;s monument, and they get the final say. I was struck by one person who suggested that &#8220;ownership should have been given to the local SCV.&#8221; Who, exactly is supposed to &#8220;give&#8221; ownership, and under what legal theory?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Comment on The Politically-Correct Origin of the Confederate Battle Flag by Andy Hall</title>
		<link>http://deadconfederates.com/2013/05/17/the-politically-correct-origin-of-the-confederate-battle-flag/#comment-8229</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Andy Hall]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 May 2013 18:00:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://deadconfederates.com/?p=15529#comment-8229</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Of course. I merely have quotes from the actual people involved. How&#039;s that to counter things like &lt;a href=&quot;http://mauricesbbq.itgo.com/truth.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;strong&gt;this 8,000-word ramble&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/a&gt; about the famous Irish-Confederate General &quot;Patrick Clever,&quot; the Emancipation Proclamation, recolonization, Winston Cup auto racing, how &quot;the North came down and started stirring up trouble&quot; in the 1960s over desegregation, and the Berlin Wall, and all the rest?

He does mention, in passing, a &quot;Colonel Miles&quot; as designer of the saltire flag, but AFAIK William Porcher Miles never held any officer&#039;s commission in the C.S. military, serving in the Confederate Congress February 1861 to March 1865, but that&#039;s as close as he gets to actually discussing the origin of the design.

At the end of the day, readers have to make their own judgements about who actually knows what he&#039;s talking about.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course. I merely have quotes from the actual people involved. How&#8217;s that to counter things like <a href="http://mauricesbbq.itgo.com/truth.html" rel="nofollow"><strong>this 8,000-word ramble</strong></a> about the famous Irish-Confederate General &#8220;Patrick Clever,&#8221; the Emancipation Proclamation, recolonization, Winston Cup auto racing, how &#8220;the North came down and started stirring up trouble&#8221; in the 1960s over desegregation, and the Berlin Wall, and all the rest?</p>
<p>He does mention, in passing, a &#8220;Colonel Miles&#8221; as designer of the saltire flag, but AFAIK William Porcher Miles never held any officer&#8217;s commission in the C.S. military, serving in the Confederate Congress February 1861 to March 1865, but that&#8217;s as close as he gets to actually discussing the origin of the design.</p>
<p>At the end of the day, readers have to make their own judgements about who actually knows what he&#8217;s talking about.</p>
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